The Past

[chairboy]

Morning Gentlemen (and Ladies).

Wycombe supporter here in peace.

Wonder if I may take some of your time to settle a difference of opinion in relation to your club that may have implications on ours. Would welcome your insight on the below (or anything else relating to the period you want to talk about).

1) If you knew what would follow when Rushden and Irthlingborough first merged, all the good things and all the bad, would you have voted for the merger or opposed it and carried on as before.
2) Was there anything that could have been done differently to avoid the eventual bankruptcy or was that path virtually inevitable once Dr Martens started to go out of fashion.
3) Do you believe Max Griggs was in it for altruistic reasons and community spirit or for selfish personal reasons or for financial gain
4) what are your feelings towards Max Griggs.

Many thanks in advance. Hope the rest of your season goes well and that the ground move is successful.

[BartonRaz]

Morning Gentlemen (and Ladies).

Wycombe supporter here in peace.

Wonder if I may take some of your time to settle a difference of opinion in relation to your club that may have implications on ours. Would welcome your insight on the below (or anything else relating to the period you want to talk about).

1) If you knew what would follow when Rushden and Irthlingborough first merged, all the good things and all the bad, would you have voted for the merger or opposed it and carried on as before.
2) Was there anything that could have been done differently to avoid the eventual bankruptcy or was that path virtually inevitable once Dr Martens started to go out of fashion.
3) Do you believe Max Griggs was in it for altruistic reasons and community spirit or for selfish personal reasons or for financial gain
4) what are your feelings towards Max Griggs.

Many thanks in advance. Hope the rest of your season goes well and that the ground move is successful.

Some interesting questions there. I can't really answer question number one as I didn't start following the club until 1996 (post-merger) although i'd like to think most RDFC fans wouldn't change a thing because the rise to League One was incredible to be a part of. It's only now that a fair bit of time has elapsed and I've experienced the other end of the stick that I can really appreciate how fantastic it all was. Other clubs have done similar, Fleetwood, Crawley etc but from a distance they don't seem to have had the feel-good factor the rise of RDFC did, getting crowds of 5-6,000 regularly despite our rural location.

I don't feel well placed to answer Question 2 as, like most, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. What I do know is that we appointed some bloody awful managers that probably accelerated our demise on the pitch. Had we not appointed the likes of Ernie Tippett and Barry Hunter perhaps we could have retained our league place and maintained half decent crowds. Subsequent appointments when we dropped in to the Conference were equally as bad until we appointed Justin Edinburgh but by then the club was in the wrong hands. Having said all that Nene Park became a real issue that financially the club could not cope with, so the end was inevitable without a financial backer.

There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it was purely a community mission from Griggs' point of view and absolutely not a vanity project of any kind. An absolute legend in my opinion, a decision that he made has provided me with many brilliant memories and indirectly continues to do so with AFC R&D.

[Trek]

1) I wasn't involved with either Rushden Town or Irthlingborough Diamonds so can't comment.

2) In my opinion the problem once RDFC were relegated from the Football League in 2006 the stadium/facilities were too costly for Conference level and crowds of generally less than 1500.

3) The formation of RDFC and subsequent development of Nene Park, reputed to have cost in excess of £20 million, was Max's idea but was supported by Tony Jones, Irthlingborough's Chairman and Neil Gant, Rushden Chairman's who both were directors of RDFC for a number of years. It was certainly not done for any personal gain on Max's part, major losses of £60 million plus in one financial year for the Griggs Group around 2002/3 forced him to relinquish the club through bank pressure. Could he have done things better prior to 2004/5? Perhaps he should have tried to make the club more sustainable, in my view, but the same could be levelled currently at Dale Vince the Chairman of Forest Green Rovers.

4) Nothing but the upmost respect from me, and I would think the same for the majority of AFCRD's fans. He is a regular visitor to our home games.

Just my view.

[rushdenman]

1. I didn't start actively following R & D until 2 years into the combined club's existence, i.e. c. 1994, so I can't really voice an opinion on this question.

2. I was part of the due diligence team that reviewed the club's detailed accounts prior to the original Trust taking over from the Griggs Group in 2005. It was evident then that the costs would need to be slashed dramatically without the Griggs input to have any chance of remaining financially viable. The main stumbling block was always the costs associated with maintaining the stadium and other assets on the site.
I feel that the eventual handing over of the Club to Conalgen Enterprises by the Trust was the only option at that time if there was to be any chance of the Club continuing, otherwise it would have folded there and then. At that point we had slipped out of the Football League and attendances, and associated revenue, were considerably reduced.

3. I am sure that Max wasn't in it for financial gain. I think he genuinely wanted to build something for the community.

4. I don't know Max personally, but he doesn't come across as brash or self-important like many football chairman we see. I think the demise of the old club hit him at least as hard as any supporter, and he would have wished to see the club continue to flourish.

[Bob's Bitch]

Can't answer 1), as I started supporting in 02/03.

2) I don't think it was inevitable. Griggs gave the Supporters Trust £750k in 2005 when handing over the club and this was seemingly frittered away under the stewardship of Helen Thompson. (Happy to be corrected on that)

There didn't seem to be much attempt to promote the off-field facilities at a time when they were still in good condition and there were the aforementioned poor footballing choices. Tippett was a really weird appointment, Hunter was understandable IMO, Hart was an expensive mistake after relegation. Westley did really well but was unsavory. If he'd continued, who knows what might have happened?

3) Altruistic no doubt, I'm sure it has hurt him to see the original club die, K*ttering move in and then out and the stadium condemned and now soon to be demolished.

4) He's legendary of course, we wouldn't have this community club without the original club that he built. Perhaps the stadium could've been designed without so much grandeur, but I doubt anyone expected him to have to hand over the club because of DM's financial losses.

[Curly]

1. Speaking as a Rushden Town fan prior to the merger I can honestly say that I wouldn't change a thing. Even after the original R.D.F.C went out of business our clubs are stronger for being together.

2. Speaking honestly I feel that after Max left that our downfall was probably inevitable, it was certainly accelerated by the actions of some pretty unscrupulous people though.

3. In some ways you could say that Max was in it for himself as we were definitely two fingers up to a Northampton board who had rejected his advances. That being said he made massive financial losses trying to provide our community with a fantastic facility.

4. In some ways I'll always be annoyed with Max as if he'd been a little less naive, little more patient and prudent we may still have the original club. On the other hand the adventure he took us on will live with me forever so he can only really be viewed as a legend, our current club is his real legacy and hopefully we can do him proud

[Three of Diamonds]

Morning Gentlemen (and Ladies).
Wycombe supporter here in peace.
Wonder if I may take some of your time to settle a difference of opinion in relation to your club that may have implications on ours. Would welcome your insight on the below (or anything else relating to the period you want to talk about).

1) If you knew what would follow when Rushden and Irthlingborough first merged, all the good things and all the bad, would you have voted for the merger or opposed it and carried on as before.
2) Was there anything that could have been done differently to avoid the eventual bankruptcy or was that path virtually inevitable once Dr Martens started to go out of fashion.
3) Do you believe Max Griggs was in it for altruistic reasons and community spirit or for selfish personal reasons or for financial gain
4) what are your feelings towards Max Griggs.

Many thanks in advance. Hope the rest of your season goes well and that the ground move is successful.

1) Yes, knowing what we know I'd have voted for it. Both clubs were treading dead water before the merger
2) of course, the ground could have been built more eco-friendly with solar, wind and other energies built in, making it cheaper to maintain. We were also tied by a "claw back clause" when Max handed over the ground so we couldn't develop nor sell land to gain an income.
3) a man who gave over £30 million of his money to a pair of local football clubs then handed it over for nothing? There was no financial gain involved, quite the opposite.
4) Max is a legend, a thoroughly nice man. A friend of mine asked him if he'd lend him £1 million until he won the lottery. Max just calmly asked what collateral he had. He has attended a game or two since we reformed and I've met and spoken to him many times. A lovely down to earth man for someone so financially rich.

[chairboy]

Thank you gentlemen for a genuinely interesting and insightful response.

Quite reassuring, in a world increasingly moving towards hatred, suspicion of corruption and weird conspiracy theories, to see your overwhelming support for Mr Griggs despite the eventual demise of your (original) club. Perhaps the conclusion we should draw is that just as in "real life", while there are undoubtedly bad guys out there (as Morecambe and Orient would no doubt attest), there are also good guys trying to give something back to the local community (as Forest green and Plymouth are experiencing).

If I can master the technology I will link this thread onto our forum, https://gasroom.org/, where I must warn you the prevailing mood is very much in the "selfish moneygrabbing bastard killed a football club" direction. I am sure you would be welcome to give your informed view of your clubs past - transfer window doesn't apply to football forums, you would be welcome on loan or dare I say even on permanent transfer!

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated. Have a great remainder to the season.