Radio Northants (Joe Day to Posh?)

[Welsh]

I think there are a number of issues which are not clear, and which could have a significant bearing on the finances:-

1. Is money still outstanding from the Tomlin sale? I understood that initial the fee was being paid in instalments over a period of time.

2. Does any sell-on clause on Tomlin benefit the Football Club and it's new owners, or did KC (who appears to be very shrewd) put a clause in the sale of the club whereby he ( or his Company) retain the rights to any sell-on fees, and maybe even any outstanding initial transfer monies from Tomlin's sale.

3. Assuming the Joe Day sale is confirmed ( I guess at the moment there can only be some pre-contract agreement as we are outside the transfer window) how discounted is the price as it is very much a buyer's market at the moment where we are concerned. I believe that Joe would have moved on in the summer anyway, and had our finances not required the immediate cash injection could we have held out for a lot more money.

4. If the Club receive say £50k. for Joe Day it only represents about 1 months wages, so it is only a temporary fix, and we have lost one of our best assets.

As others have said, I think we need open and clear information from the new owners regarding the finances, both current and projected, before commitments will be made by supporters to buy season tickets, and before players/staff will be convinced to sign new contracts or be prevented from looking elsewhere for more secure employment.


I'm sorry if that sounds negative but I think we need to be realistic anout our situation, which appears to be pretty dire at the moment.

Some great points there and it's good to have your view. I was looking forward to your comments and those of other very respected contributors such as Formic & Dave Albon to add to those of Pigman and ToD.

I just a single question really. How is the football club going to be funded until the PBDevs business is cash generative?

In the absence of bums on seats, feet on terraces and sponsorship, none of which were going to happen this year, the presumption was this coming from the new owners. If it isn't and player sales is making up the shortfall then we need to be told that's the short term strategy and we'll build the squad once funding comes in. At the moment I cannot reconcile the comments made by the new owners with the recent events.

I'm all for the fact positivity and optimism is needed to bring fans back, but i think realism is better for the 800 or so of us that remain (and for the manager too. )

[Trek]

I just a single question really. How is the football club going to be funded until the PBDevs business is cash generative?

In the absence of bums on seats, feet on terraces and sponsorship, none of which were going to happen this year, the presumption was this coming from the new owners. If it isn't and player sales is making up the shortfall then we need to be told that's the short term strategy and we'll build the squad once funding comes in. At the moment I cannot reconcile the comments made by the new owners with the recent events.

I cannot see how a company like PBDev's can bring in sufficient revenue even in the long run. I understand that there is only a single leisure based course on offer, which is going to be free, so the asumption is that they are possibly relying on some sort of grant injection and the company in any event will have stiff competition from established local further education colleges such as Wellingborough, Moulton and Tresham.
It was reported after Calder's departure that he didn't bring any money to the table and I'm now suspecting the Beasants didn't either. Liam hasn't long been out of the services and his father was declared bankrupt only a few years ago and when he tried to takeover Weymouth their fans were convinced he didn't have any cash to invest. The question of rent payments to KC hasn't been addressed and I'm most disappointed that within 3 months of the takeover the Club is experiencing serious cash flow problems which will do nothing to convince people that they should invest in a season ticket.
Perhaps, Mrs Thompson could see the writing on the wall. :(

[toad]

I believe all sell on clauses come to the club rather than third parties.
This got nailed down after Tevez transfer to West Ham.
The main problem with the Jackson transfer is that Norwich is paying in small instalments this all goes through the football league system. I am not too sure if the payments to us will come in instalments to or after all payments are made.
The Tomlin sell on fees go through the same process.
Back to Joe Day, I hope the move goes well for him, but the 50K will not last long considering Nene Park costs £1,000.00 a day to run.
Were my ears deceiving me but did the radio presenter mention another winding up order outstanding?

[rushdenman]

Under the present circumstances I am going to need an awful lot of information and guarantees before I consider parting with £600 for 2 season tickets, and I suspect that many existing season ticket holders will hold the same views, so the next 4 months will generate little income for the Club whilst the outgoings remain significant, not least players/staff wages.
If they are unable to meet obligations now, how do they propose to do this through the summer months?

There is no magic formula - most clubs at our level (and higher) are sustained by input of large amounts of cash from rich directors. Not many clubs would be capable of surviving on football related revenue alone.
The gap between the "haves" (top Premiership clubs) and the "have nots" continues to grow as more and more TV money goes to fewer clubs, so the long term prospects for lower league clubs to become totally self sufficient diminish.

We were very fortunate to enjoy 10 years of funding from Max, which enabled the Club to grow rapidly beyond it's true potential. It was always going to be very difficult to maintain that level without the continued funding as we have not had time to establish the neccesary volume of solid, core support that would be required. Other clubs have had decades, and more, to establish that support, and most of them are also financially struggling.

[Biggles]

I believe all sell on clauses come to the club rather than third parties.
This got nailed down after Tevez transfer to West Ham.
The main problem with the Jackson transfer is that Norwich is paying in small instalments this all goes through the football league system. I am not too sure if the payments to us will come in instalments to or after all payments are made.
The Tomlin sell on fees go through the same process.
Back to Joe Day, I hope the move goes well for him, but the 50K will not last long considering Nene Park costs £1,000.00 a day to run.
Were my ears deceiving me but did the radio presenter mention another winding up order outstanding?

As far as i'm aware no notice has been issued regarding a winding up order,the club was issued an order on the 22nd March to submit accounts to a court, believe this was the local county court.

I'm trying to find out more over the rumour the Club are alledgedly being sued and i can only assume the quiteness and lack of firm news from all parties (Club,Media, etc) is because a court case is ongoing.

[Bob's Bitch]

I cannot see how a company like PBDev's can bring in sufficient revenue even in the long run. I understand that there is only a single leisure based course on offer, which is going to be free, so the asumption is that they are possibly relying on some sort of grant injection and the company in any event will have stiff competition from established local further education colleges such as Wellingborough, Moulton and Tresham.

Agreed. You'd have thought that PBDevs already be expanding their offerings now that they have the facilities but it doesn't seem so.

The last few posts of this thread have made me even more depressed about our situation. Basically we've just sold one of our best assets to keep us going for a month and to me it seems like we're just delaying the inevitable. As I trudged out of the Kassam Stadium last season I overheard someone say 'I don't think we'll be up to much in the future, I think that was our chance' and I'm starting to agree with that. The Beasants need to outline what they're going to do in the next year or so and give us some idea of where we're going because as I see it we're fading rapidly and it's not nice to see. :( :(

[Dukes]

Under the present circumstances I am going to need an awful lot of information and guarantees before I consider parting with £600 for 2 season tickets, and I suspect that many existing season ticket holders will hold the same views, so the next 4 months will generate little income for the Club whilst the outgoings remain significant, not least players/staff wages.
If they are unable to meet obligations now, how do they propose to do this through the summer months?

There is no magic formula - most clubs at our level (and higher) are sustained by input of large amounts of cash from rich directors. Not many clubs would be capable of surviving on football related revenue alone.
The gap between the "haves" (top Premiership clubs) and the "have nots" continues to grow as more and more TV money goes to fewer clubs, so the long term prospects for lower league clubs to become totally self sufficient diminish.

We were very fortunate to enjoy 10 years of funding from Max, which enabled the Club to grow rapidly beyond it's true potential. It was always going to be very difficult to maintain that level without the continued funding as we have not had time to establish the neccesary volume of solid, core support that would be required. Other clubs have had decades, and more, to establish that support, and most of them are also financially struggling.

Yes, totally agree Rushdenman. All this 'pie in the sky' finances by the Beasants will take us nowhere. Really feel this the end of our club as we know it.

Need a white knight charging over the horizon... again ...!

[DiamondEejit]

All this 'pie in the sky' finances by the Beasants will take us nowhere. Really feel this the end of our club as we know it.

I, unfortunately, get the feeling we're being used to finance their other business ventures. And that scares me.

[Three of Diamonds]

Some interesting points there from you Rushdenman, but here's the problem. IF people hold their money back the club has NO CHANCE of survival. What are we waiting for, a white knight to ride over the horizon with bags of cash? It aint gonna happen folks, so holding back just damages the club by affecting its cashflow.
What Max introduced was a huge financial input that meant people felt secure enough to spend their money whether the footy was good or bad, but which footy team at this level has that comfort now?
What we do need is another fans forum so we can discuss some of these concerns. We had the keys to NP and even then never got the in depth financial info that some of you are looking for so why do you need it now? We can't have that info cos it might be damaging to our club.
Just because PBDevs is offering courses for free to the person joining, doesn't mean they're not being paid to run the course. It's probably some new governement funded initiative to train 18 - 24 year olds. In fact the people on the course actually get paid, so the money has to come from somewhere.
Personally I couldn't give a hoot if someone is using our facilities to generate some cash for themselves - as long as the football club benefits as well. We have yet to see those long term benefits.

[Pigman]

I agree with TofD, its a leap of faith to a certain extent, but I reckon 85% of clubs at this level could go under if their cash flow was cut - its a self fulfilling prophecy really isn't it? The fear of going bust and losing your money makes you not spend it, which in turn brings about the very thing you're worried about.

For many I think its a confidence issue now, we've yet to hear anything from the club about what is happening, and no news isn't always good news !! Time for our Chairman to steady the ship and speak to the troops, whether in person at a Forum, or via the media - but confidence building is vital now, so much has been lost this past 10 days or so.